Sky Menace Should Include Helicopters

Napisano przez Darkmace, 30.08.2015 at 16:37

Napisano przez Goblin, 30.08.2015 at 16:22

Napisano przez b0nker2, 30.08.2015 at 15:57

Also forgets that with mos subs attack first, and ya nobody uses subs with nc really...

No, no bonk... clearly you don't know how to play NC to its full potential.

Haha funny, but I can tell you I have uses subs to retake my cap (with 1 marine). Im sure you as a r11 knows how moves work, so I attack with subs first than move sub with marine last. To insure i take the city. I dont know what you play, but I play alot of WW 50K as indo, and NC subs are a must. if you dont use subs with NC indo you aren't playing NC to its "full potential".

Hi I am b0nker, I created NC.

Seriously now, cost to impact ratio the destroyers are better for you in NC, 150 for subs 9/7 that cant take cities alone, or destroyers 170 for 11/9 that Can take cities alone, with a marine you are spending 310 for what can be done at half the cost. The transports carrying an extra 5 and cheaper is the bonus also, subs really are useless when needing to manage money, of course playing 50k you wouldn't know this.

Napisano przez Goblin, 30.08.2015 at 17:17

Just because you guys suck doesn't mean helicopters aren't usable...

6 attack for 200 cost and a bad range.

Standard tanks have 8 attack for 130 cost 120 cost, and almost every other unit boosted by its strat can top those 6 attack (8 against infantries). They also have bigger range.

IMO, I'd only use helicopters in 3 specific scenarios:

1) Playing DS.
2) Have a lot of money, limited reinforcements and have to get more attack power on a city that is closer (in heli range) of my reinforcements spawns.
3) I have 3x more troops than my enemy in one battle, so I'd use helis for exploit the battle stacking bonus and also make my opponent have lower rolls.

Napisano przez clovis1122, 30.08.2015 at 17:23

Napisano przez Goblin, 30.08.2015 at 17:17

Just because you guys suck doesn't mean helicopters aren't usable...

6 attack for 200 cost and a bad range.

Standard tanks have 8 attack for 130 cost 120 cost, and almost every other unit boosted by its strat can top those 6 attack (8 against infantries). They also have bigger range.

IMO, I'd only use helicopters in 3 specific scenarios:

1) Playing DS.
2) Have a lot of money, limited reinforcements and have to get more attack power on a city that is closer (in heli range) of my reinforcements spawns.
3) I have 3x more troops than my enemy in one battle, so I'd use helis for exploit the battle stacking bonus and also make my opponent have lower rolls.

As I said SM is already fine, genuinely think making the helis better especially attack for it will make it OP

if anything I would like to see DS changed again, add some capacity for the marines to 3 and range for the helis for ds to 13 this will imo make it a good viable strat and open up for better use in SPA POL UKR etc

This thread isn't about NC, but since we arrived at that point, I'd like to say that I think that strategy lacks something. We've been discussing internally, but I'm in favor of boosting marines as well, so that it can be more of a well rounded strategy, instead of a niche one.

Back to Sky Menace: at least in world maps I don't really think the strategy needs any change, it's very efficient and it's range is optimal for large maps. However, the beginning of the game is very unstable and the strategy suffers a lot - if you can't expand properly in the early turns, you go into the mid game pretty fucked and having to come back to the game from a pretty shitty position. If you don't have time to do that, an enemy with a good economy will run you over pretty much every time.

I have no experience with 3v3 games, but playing on Euro+ I have the same feeling. IMO the strategy doesn't need any sort of change, but I'd love to hear what the competitive scene has to say about it (and giving it a reinforcement-efficient way of dealing with inf stacking would probably be good in the beginning of the game)

Napisano przez b0nker2, 30.08.2015 at 17:30

As I said SM is already fine, genuinely think making the helis better especially attack for it will make it OP

I don't really understand how giving any kind-of boost to helicopters who aren't even an effective unit will make SM op. As I've said, SM helis aren't mean to replace SM bombers but rather to offer another way to play the strategy. Just my opinion.

I grave the NC example from the pretty start. Submarines aren't going to replace Destroyers or anything similar, but they do offer another way to play the strategy (For surprise sunk and mid-MoS style). Maybe I am the only one who had used NC submarines in that way. I am pretty much with this though:

Napisano przez Darkmace, 30.08.2015 at 17:46

If subs are so useless with NC why keep them in it? Why only raise hell now what I post this topic of SM to point out that subs are bad with NC. Also if they are so bad and shouldn't be used with/in NC. How come they have more range upgrade that makes them have the same range than a destroyer, please explain.

Napisano przez clovis1122, 30.08.2015 at 18:32

Napisano przez b0nker2, 30.08.2015 at 17:30

As I said SM is already fine, genuinely think making the helis better especially attack for it will make it OP

I don't really understand how giving any kind-of boost to helicopters who aren't even an effective unit will make SM op. As I've said, SM helis aren't mean to replace SM bombers but rather to offer another way to play the strategy. Just my opinion.

I grave the NC example from the pretty start. Submarines aren't going to replace Destroyers or anything similar, but they do offer another way to play the strategy (For surprise sunk and mid-MoS style). Maybe I am the only one who had used NC submarines in that way. I am pretty much with this though:

Napisano przez Darkmace, 30.08.2015 at 17:46

If subs are so useless with NC why keep them in it? Why only raise hell now what I post this topic of SM to point out that subs are bad with NC. Also if they are so bad and shouldn't be used with/in NC. How come they have more range upgrade that makes them have the same range than a destroyer, please explain.

Subs and helis are in every strategy, there are specialist strategies as you know, start boosting stuff messes the whole dynamic up. SM is fine, you want to 'mix it up' play impi or none save the boosting/nerfing for specialist strats.

Simple put, if they dont replace or match the main strength of the strategy then what is the point of the boost? What will it actually do to make the strat better than it currently is? You will end up with helis for 8 attack (proposed buff with -1 for inf) at 200 less range or bombers with 8 attack for 130 WHY would you chose the heli? It makes no sense an is uneeded/wont change a thing,

Napisano przez Aqua Heartia, 30.08.2015 at 12:45

SM is pretty much useless against PD. PD Inf counters SM bombers quite hard with a 1:1 ratio when defending and Inf are cheaper. Adding Helis to SM and buffing them should allow SM a counter measure against Inf spam.

how do you even like school-live? btw sm is strong

Napisano przez b0nker2, 30.08.2015 at 18:44

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For the sake of the strategy name?

: )

P.S: Now really, I feel like this point was totally ignored. The range and Attack (or cost reduction) will allow this scenario to happen more often and, trust, generating opportunities in which you could use SM helis as an alternative to SM bombers - another way to play the strategy. Also, infantries have -2 not -1 against helis.

Napisano przez clovis1122, 30.08.2015 at 17:23

3) I have 3x more troops than my enemy in one battle, so I'd use helis for exploit the battle stacking bonus and also make my opponent have lower rolls.

Napisano przez b0nker2, 30.08.2015 at 17:20

Napisano przez Darkmace, 30.08.2015 at 16:37

Napisano przez Goblin, 30.08.2015 at 16:22

Napisano przez b0nker2, 30.08.2015 at 15:57

Also forgets that with mos subs attack first, and ya nobody uses subs with nc really...

No, no bonk... clearly you don't know how to play NC to its full potential.

Haha funny, but I can tell you I have uses subs to retake my cap (with 1 marine). Im sure you as a r11 knows how moves work, so I attack with subs first than move sub with marine last. To insure i take the city. I dont know what you play, but I play alot of WW 50K as indo, and NC subs are a must. if you dont use subs with NC indo you aren't playing NC to its "full potential".

Hi I am b0nker, I created NC.

Seriously now, cost to impact ratio the destroyers are better for you in NC, 150 for subs 9/7 that cant take cities alone, or destroyers 170 for 11/9 that Can take cities alone, with a marine you are spending 310 for what can be done at half the cost. The transports carrying an extra 5 and cheaper is the bonus also, subs really are useless when needing to manage money, of course playing 50k you wouldn't know this.

Case solved