When should I give in?

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Posty: 129 Odwiedzany przez: 122 users

Pierwotny post

Napisano przez Professor Adog, 26.07.2014 - 19:31

This has nothing to do with banlists, it's got nothing to do with fascism, weird rants or anti mod comments. It has no racist, anti-Semitic comments or ideas of genocide. This is about a rather personal struggle. One which I have faced for some time. If you are close minded, get out now.

It concerns one of the key issues affecting atwar today, RP. After you read that comment you might think I am one of those whiners who say delete RP.
This isn't one of those posts. I wanted to discuss, Adog RP. Yes it's an RP, well done. Maybe you hate rp, I don't blame you. I used to hate it too, because it killed my growing maps (LoN) and created a new world of extreme noobism. The future of Adog RP seems bleak.

There are many problems with (Tempted) RP, one of the main problems are the units. The RA - tuned, bunker spamming units. These are perfect for noobs, but when they leave RP at rank 8 or 9, they will have no clue about any other strategy apart from RA. They will have no clue about budgeting. They will have no clue about any tactics of defence as Noob RA spammage doesn't require any defence.

I generally, solve these problems. Yes, I can't solve all of them, but adog RP solves many. The idea behind adog RP, was that it's RP so yes lots of unit spamming, higher than average incomes (I make my incomes are way less than Tempted's tho), but at the same time it teaches them about new strategies and new ideas. Many want to go SM, many try MoS or GW, others even try PD. So it's a transitional map. It mixes noobism with key ingredients for the future. This is why, in the RP world, those who play Adog RP are like the 3v3 community of atwar. They are the elites of the RP world. Some people are too close minded. They don't try to understand that this map is indeed an RP, but one which is designed to help cure the effects of Tempted.

I have however, been asked several times to have my RP cloned. Around 10-15 times (by the noob tempted worshippers). Why? Because they want it to have tempted units but have my good borders and other units they like from mine. Around 80-90% of tempted players (I asked around 40-50 players) would play Adog's RP instead of tempted if it had those noob units. 10/10 hosts prefer my borders and 9/10 hosts (RP hosts of course) would choose Adog RP over tempted if it had those retarded units. Very rapidly, Adog RP would become the most popular map on atwar.

If I wanted power I would have done it already. If I wanted popularity I would have done it already. If I wanted to abuse ban-list I would have done it already. The Question then is why not? Why is it, that for months I have not done anything? It's because I stand my ground. I will stick to the aim of trying to make atwar better, I will not let go of my ethics. Despite common belief I do not play RP all day, nor am I a major RP fag who likes to RA spam. Remember, before cartography, I was a ww2 player. So I will continue to fight for that better future for atwar, the one high ranks dream of.

But very since the infancy of Adog RP, I've been receiving a lot of hate - A lot of hate speech against me. Slowly of course, it makes me question myself why are we even doing this in the first place? Why fight for a high rank community, who seriously treat you like shit? Why try to make atwar a better place, when you get insulted by the noobs because they like tempted more (who then troll your games), and then walk into lobby and get assaulted by high ranks who think you just made Tempted v.2

High ranks think low ranks are ignorant. This is true in many cases. But sometimes, I think the high ranks, need to have a look at themselves first.

So here are the possible suggestions I've had facing Adog RP.

Delete it adog, delete it! It will help atwar - No, not true. Most will just go back to Tempted RP, that wouldn't solve anything. Anyone who thinks this is illogical.
Leave it as it is - It would help the community, but as said before... WHY should I?
Crack. Finally give in. - Why would I give in you ask? Because at-least the noobs treat me better than this horrible ignorant close minded high rank society

But it's not necessarily the case that ALL high ranks are close minded, many such as Devils Lettuce or Black Shark see the potential. But I'm afraid if the horrible high rank society keep treating me like this I'll crack within a couple of days. And when I do, there will be the rise of a new RP map, a combination of both, currently the RP world is segregated into Nooby Tempted followers, and the more skilled Adog RP players, but when that map comes it will recombine them into a giant mesh of noobs.

So I'll leave you with a thought for the night (currently 1:33 AM for me) Good luck atwar.

[PS: If you think I am crying, well you're a hypocrite. Go cry more about how you hate RP. Fag. Because it's whiners like you who ruin atwar.]

Trooper21 Posty: 668 Od: UK	28.07.2014 - 09:35 Trooper21 The way this clovis dude spells out words is really funny Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Khal.eesi Illyria Posty: 4213 Od: Izrael	28.07.2014 - 09:41 Khal.eesi Clovis statistical data company is life ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
clovis1122 Epic Clan Posty: 9043 Od: Dominikana	28.07.2014 - 09:44 clovis1122 Napisano przez Permamuted, 28.07.2014 at 09:21 if you think clovis that a scenario player like tunder etc can beat you on a random map then you either underestimate yourself or you really are bad at new maps. I have more that 2 years in this game... I had played many 3vs3, 1vs1, whole map, scenarios. Obvious if we play one of his scenarios I'l lose, because it takes time for me to adapt to the envioment. A random map is another different issue. Napisano przez Permamuted, 28.07.2014 at 09:21 where did i say i was purely 3v3? i said and i quote "i became the player i am today mainly through 3v3s and duels.". this is true, i didnt learn the gameplay of all the strats playing lord of the rings and game of thrones. most of the skills i picked up came from having my ass handed to me in duels and 3v3s. so where exactly am i contradicting myself? Laochra that is actually bullshit. there are a lot of suff you cant learn in 3vs3. Stop using suff like " mainly 3vs3" and "most of the skills" you are just leaving a hole for decline that you say that ( As you just did with "mainly 3vs3". So I will assume if I contradict your "most of the skills" setence you will just use "most" for cover youself. Bro, dont compare 3vs3 with whole world & scenarios. you are just making youself ridiculous. Where is that laochra who say " I was raised playing 50k whole world"? Did you learned how to micromanage on 3vs3 10k eu+? Did you learned to make an effective use of concurrent attack, how to GW and MoS, how to make an effective use of your reinformeds in 3vs3 10k eu+? Yes, there is A SMALL CHANCE no more that 1% that you learned " the basic" of theses concepts ( or you think you already learned it), and 99% playing world maps/scenarios. Also, Napisano przez Permamuted, 28.07.2014 at 09:21 Napisano przez clovis1122, 28.07.2014 at 09:09 More that 75% of the game is won by the team who have higher ranks / uk in their team / rush turn 3. lol yea, and 60% of statistics are made up without evidence or research. more that 100% of your statistics are made for the solery purpose of contradict me. In most the cw's and 3vs3 I play uk have the biggest advantage of win. Rushers also have a high advantage of win. So with higher rank teams for obvious reasons. So, maybe think before contradict me Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Permamuted Illyria Posty: 6176 Od: Irlandia	28.07.2014 - 10:16 Permamuted Lol clovis, i was mocking you with my statistics comment. and here you are pulling more statistics out of thin air. and now i think youre arguing with me, just for the sake of it. because youre not making any sense. 1% 3v3s/duels and 99% worldmaps/scenarios lol what? 3v3s and duels taught me how to play countries and their strats to 100% efficiency, on every other map i play i also now aspire for that level. using every rein, conserving units on expansion, economising, attrition warfare, risk assessment and taking full country bonuses. ie a small thing like taking full russia south. an extra 60 income a turn seems irrelevant but over 10 turns thats 600 lost income. it would take me quite some time to list out everything ive learned from 3v3s and duels and trial and error. if we're going to make up random stats, then my aw learning would me more 80% 3v3s and duels, 20% world games. there are many scenarios where most of the strats are unusable because of either no air units or all units are listed as other. what exactly are you learning in them that youre not learning from competitive play that is comprises 99% of the aw learning curve lol. sure the gameplay on world games is a different ballgame once it goes to lategame but 99% of the aw learning curve? you are raving. ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Professor Adog The Imperial Academy Posty: 1830 Od: UK	28.07.2014 - 10:41 Professor Adog My stats are valid I asked people via surveys ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
clovis1122 Epic Clan Posty: 9043 Od: Dominikana	28.07.2014 - 10:59 clovis1122 Napisano przez Permamuted, 28.07.2014 at 10:16 Lol clovis, i was mocking you with my statistics comment. and here you are pulling more statistics out of thin air. and now i think youre arguing with me, just for the sake of it. because youre not making any sense. 1% 3v3s/duels and 99% worldmaps/scenarios lol what? 3v3s and duels taught me how to play countries and their strats to 100% efficiency, on every other map i play i also now aspire for that level. using every rein, conserving units on expansion, economising, attrition warfare, risk assessment and taking full country bonuses. ie a small thing like taking full russia south. an extra 60 income a turn seems irrelevant but over 10 turns thats 600 lost income. it would take me quite some time to list out everything ive learned from 3v3s and duels and trial and error. if we're going to make up random stats, then my aw learning would me more 80% 3v3s and duels, 20% world games. there are many scenarios where most of the strats are unusable because of either no air units or all units are listed as other. what exactly are you learning in them that youre not learning from competitive play that is composes 99% of the aw learning curve lol. sure the gameplay on world games is a different ballgame once it goes to lategame but 99% of the aw learning curve? you are raving. Nice misunderstanding of my post. Makes me think you didnt read before post. No wort reply. Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Permamuted Illyria Posty: 6176 Od: Irlandia	28.07.2014 - 11:09 Permamuted lol, i think ive just been trollvis'd ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
SuperiorCacaocow Konto skasowane	28.07.2014 - 12:18 SuperiorCacaocow Konto skasowane Even though Laochra often isn't as well informed as he thinks he is, he is right in this thread. Desu's post put it all in a nutshell, that's why it's relevant here. (Don't know about the OP though, tl;dr.) Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
The Tactician ConstellationDivided Posty: 4108 Od: Egipt	28.07.2014 - 15:03 The Tactician After reading over some of this argument, I have to note that some of the points Clovis is saying about learning stealth strats and micromanagement in scenarios and world can and are learnt in eu+ too, maybe on a smaller scale. Also the things you learn in eu+ (efficiency, strategy use etc) you do learn on a smaller scale in scenarios too. Point is it may not be fully the maps fault, but more the type of the players playing it. Some scenario players like long games with specific roles and other 3v3/1v1/world players like to basically try to win on their own or with 2-3 allies. Scenarios may be more of a bigger picture sort of game with each person specializing and focusing on playing their role hoping others do too. (which is why often ww2 is very heated and competitive, depending on others of serving their role too) Trying to compare both and decide which is ultimately better is very vague and just a matter of opinion. However skill wise you can't deny that default map (3-10k) brings more skill that can be taken in other maps while scenarios also develop skills but its usually only applicable to that certain or other scenarios due to its specialization-of-each-player nature. ---- We are not the same - I am a Martian. We are not the same - I am a... divided constellation? Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Acquiesce (Moderator) Illyria Posty: 3792	28.07.2014 - 15:19 Acquiesce (Moderator) The fact that the large majority of the best players in this game come from the competitive team game community should speak for itself. Not sure why this conversation even needs to be had. ---- The church is near, but the road is icy... the bar is far away, but I will walk carefully... Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Permamuted Illyria Posty: 6176 Od: Irlandia	28.07.2014 - 15:30 Permamuted What tact and acqui said, most of this is common sense. i wouldnt even have bothered having the argument but marcus' rather agressively stated opinion just cried out to be contradicted. ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Professor Adog The Imperial Academy Posty: 1830 Od: UK	28.07.2014 - 15:39 Professor Adog Napisano przez The Tactician, 28.07.2014 at 15:03 After reading over some of this argument, I have to note that some of the points Clovis is saying about learning stealth strats and micromanagement in scenarios and world can and are learnt in eu+ too, maybe on a smaller scale. Also the things you learn in eu+ (efficiency, strategy use etc) you do learn on a smaller scale in scenarios too. Point is it may not be fully the maps fault, but more the type of the players playing it. Some scenario players like long games with specific roles and other 3v3/1v1/world players like to basically try to win on their own or with 2-3 allies. Scenarios may be more of a bigger picture sort of game with each person specializing and focusing on playing their role hoping others do too. (which is why often ww2 is very heated and competitive, depending on others of serving their role too) Trying to compare both and decide which is ultimately better is very vague and just a matter of opinion. However skill wise you can't deny that default map (3-10k) brings more skill that can be taken in other maps while scenarios also develop skills but its usually only applicable to that certain or other scenarios due to its specialization-of-each-player nature. Final Verdict: 3v3 etc, brings more skill than all scenarios apart from WW2. WW2 & 3v3 are just about the same ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Roncho Stalins Martians Posty: 1106 Od: Turcja	28.07.2014 - 15:43 Roncho 3v3 player can adapt to ww2 but ww2 player can't adağt 3v3 easily. ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Fockmeeard Stalins Martians Posty: 718 Od: USA	28.07.2014 - 15:48 Fockmeeard Napisano przez Roncho, 28.07.2014 at 15:43 3v3 player can adapt to ww2 but ww2 player can't adağt 3v3 easily. ^ This. In WW2 you can lose a stack of 50 units and be able to blow it off. You lose a stack of 50 in 3v3 it's gg. Basically what I'm saying is there is more micromangement in 3v3. Every unit is precious and valuable. Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Professor Adog The Imperial Academy Posty: 1830 Od: UK	28.07.2014 - 15:49 Professor Adog Ok guys talking about adapting a budgeting, why don't you join in the Pecunia Competition? http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=14819 ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Professor Adog The Imperial Academy Posty: 1830 Od: UK	28.07.2014 - 15:49 Professor Adog Napisano przez Fockmeeard, 28.07.2014 at 15:48 Napisano przez Roncho, 28.07.2014 at 15:43 3v3 player can adapt to ww2 but ww2 player can't adağt 3v3 easily. ^ This. In WW2 you can lose a stack of 50 units and be able to blow it off. You lose a stack of 50 in 3v3 it's gg. Basically what I'm saying is there is more micromangement in 3v3. Every unit is precious and valuable. Clearly you've never played Japan in ww2. ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Tirpitz406 ENIGMA Posty: 2927 Od: Niemcy	28.07.2014 - 20:36 Tirpitz406 Napisano przez Professor Adog, 28.07.2014 at 15:49 Napisano przez Fockmeeard, 28.07.2014 at 15:48 Napisano przez Roncho, 28.07.2014 at 15:43 3v3 player can adapt to ww2 but ww2 player can't adağt 3v3 easily. ^ This. In WW2 you can lose a stack of 50 units and be able to blow it off. You lose a stack of 50 in 3v3 it's gg. Basically what I'm saying is there is more micromangement in 3v3. Every unit is precious and valuable. Clearly you've never played Japan in ww2. you lost 122 inf+gen and that was why you lost ._. 122 inf+gen>50 inf ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Meester Veni Vidi Vici Posty: 3256	28.07.2014 - 22:42 Meester Napisano przez Tirpitz406, 28.07.2014 at 20:36 Napisano przez Professor Adog, 28.07.2014 at 15:49 Napisano przez Fockmeeard, 28.07.2014 at 15:48 Napisano przez Roncho, 28.07.2014 at 15:43 3v3 player can adapt to ww2 but ww2 player can't adağt 3v3 easily. ^ This. In WW2 you can lose a stack of 50 units and be able to blow it off. You lose a stack of 50 in 3v3 it's gg. Basically what I'm saying is there is more micromangement in 3v3. Every unit is precious and valuable. Clearly you've never played Japan in ww2. you lost 122 inf+gen and that was why you lost ._. 122 inf+gen>50 inf If you used infantry with Japan your doing it wrong. Tell a 3v3 player to play Japan and he'll use PD, IMP or GW and he'll never get past China. Therefor 3v3 players cannot adapt to scenarios. Even if I were to tell them they need to play DS i doubt they would know how to properly utilize the helicopters and starting infantry. Scenario ≠ 3v3 Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
The Tactician ConstellationDivided Posty: 4108 Od: Egipt	29.07.2014 - 05:36 The Tactician Umm no. Just no. You're saying because of the probability of an average 3v3 not being able to play one country in one scenario for the first time then default map players can't play scenarios. To make it clear; 3v3 players won't get it the first time or maybe the first 5 times, but they will surely adapt to the situation and transfer their usual skills to the scenario while gaining the specific ones brought from the scenario. Oh and, also, the part about 3v3 players not being able to "utilize" something is ridiculous. Utilizing units to max efficiency is a good player would do. Any units. No pls stop with this brainless comparison between default and scenarios. ---- We are not the same - I am a Martian. We are not the same - I am a... divided constellation? Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Khal.eesi Illyria Posty: 4213 Od: Izrael	29.07.2014 - 06:11 Khal.eesi I play imp japan half tanks half infantry and ive never lost east like ever.the thing is there are mechanics in scenarios that you dont need to pay much attention to, whereas in 3v3 if you dont, you are dead.turnblocking and moove order come to mind among other things.not even gonna mention scenarios with alliances on. all in all ww2 is a great scenario that requires skill and speed, but a player cant be complete if he doesnt play 3v3 and 1v1 in europe. ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Professor Adog The Imperial Academy Posty: 1830 Od: UK	29.07.2014 - 07:38 Professor Adog Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 06:11 I play imp japan half tanks half infantry and ive never lost east like ever.the thing is there are mechanics in scenarios that you dont need to pay much attention to, whereas in 3v3 if you dont, you are dead.turnblocking and moove order come to mind among other things.not even gonna mention scenarios with alliances on. all in all ww2 is a great scenario that requires skill and speed, but a player cant be complete if he doesnt play 3v3 and 1v1 in europe. Play against SQUARED ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Khal.eesi Illyria Posty: 4213 Od: Izrael	29.07.2014 - 08:21 Khal.eesi Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 07:38 Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 06:11 I play imp japan half tanks half infantry and ive never lost east like ever.the thing is there are mechanics in scenarios that you dont need to pay much attention to, whereas in 3v3 if you dont, you are dead.turnblocking and moove order come to mind among other things.not even gonna mention scenarios with alliances on. all in all ww2 is a great scenario that requires skill and speed, but a player cant be complete if he doesnt play 3v3 and 1v1 in europe. Play against SQUARED yeah im scared now ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Professor Adog The Imperial Academy Posty: 1830 Od: UK	29.07.2014 - 08:29 Professor Adog Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 08:21 Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 07:38 Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 06:11 I play imp japan half tanks half infantry and ive never lost east like ever.the thing is there are mechanics in scenarios that you dont need to pay much attention to, whereas in 3v3 if you dont, you are dead.turnblocking and moove order come to mind among other things.not even gonna mention scenarios with alliances on. all in all ww2 is a great scenario that requires skill and speed, but a player cant be complete if he doesnt play 3v3 and 1v1 in europe. Play against SQUARED yeah im scared now everyone is D: ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Khal.eesi Illyria Posty: 4213 Od: Izrael	29.07.2014 - 08:34 Khal.eesi Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 08:29 Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 08:21 Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 07:38 Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 06:11 I play imp japan half tanks half infantry and ive never lost east like ever.the thing is there are mechanics in scenarios that you dont need to pay much attention to, whereas in 3v3 if you dont, you are dead.turnblocking and moove order come to mind among other things.not even gonna mention scenarios with alliances on. all in all ww2 is a great scenario that requires skill and speed, but a player cant be complete if he doesnt play 3v3 and 1v1 in europe. Play against SQUARED yeah im scared now everyone is D: ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Professor Adog The Imperial Academy Posty: 1830 Od: UK	29.07.2014 - 08:36 Professor Adog Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 08:34 Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 08:29 Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 08:21 Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 07:38 Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 06:11 I play imp japan half tanks half infantry and ive never lost east like ever.the thing is there are mechanics in scenarios that you dont need to pay much attention to, whereas in 3v3 if you dont, you are dead.turnblocking and moove order come to mind among other things.not even gonna mention scenarios with alliances on. all in all ww2 is a great scenario that requires skill and speed, but a player cant be complete if he doesnt play 3v3 and 1v1 in europe. Play against SQUARED yeah im scared now everyone is D: Omg i will go cris in corner now, u made puppy cris. GG. ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Khal.eesi Illyria Posty: 4213 Od: Izrael	29.07.2014 - 08:40 Khal.eesi Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 08:36 Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 08:34 Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 08:29 Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 08:21 Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 07:38 Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 06:11 I play imp japan half tanks half infantry and ive never lost east like ever.the thing is there are mechanics in scenarios that you dont need to pay much attention to, whereas in 3v3 if you dont, you are dead.turnblocking and moove order come to mind among other things.not even gonna mention scenarios with alliances on. all in all ww2 is a great scenario that requires skill and speed, but a player cant be complete if he doesnt play 3v3 and 1v1 in europe. Play against SQUARED yeah im scared now everyone is D: Omg i will go cris in corner now, u made puppy cris. GG. ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Professor Adog The Imperial Academy Posty: 1830 Od: UK	29.07.2014 - 08:41 Professor Adog Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 08:40 Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 08:36 Omg i will go cris in corner now, u made puppy cris. GG. no. i still sad ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Khal.eesi Illyria Posty: 4213 Od: Izrael	29.07.2014 - 08:52 Khal.eesi Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 08:41 Napisano przez Khal.eesi, 29.07.2014 at 08:40 Napisano przez Professor Adog, 29.07.2014 at 08:36 Omg i will go cris in corner now, u made puppy cris. GG. no. i still sad ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Black Shark Konto skasowane	29.07.2014 - 08:54 Black Shark Konto skasowane Bad GIFS are bad, and you should feel bad. Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...
Khal.eesi Illyria Posty: 4213 Od: Izrael	29.07.2014 - 09:30 Khal.eesi Napisano przez Guest, 29.07.2014 at 08:54 Bad GIFS are bad, and you should feel bad. sure? ---- Wczytywanie... Wczytywanie...

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