Biggwall problems.

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 09:56

Yes, but this one has no counter, and since you guys compare everything to strenghts and weaknesses, be reasonable and look at this wall, it has no counter. So its actually not legit.

The main purpose of double wall is to prevent someone from attacking you in 2 turns. How do you call the first one as a <counter> ? It just does not work. It cant even be considered as double wall because you can break it in 1 turn using bugs.

Laochra wall have a counter. You just need to break the first wall and in next turn the second wall. You have to hold 2 turns for do that. This is what make the wall suitable. That is the point of a double wall.

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 10:33

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 09:56

Yes, but this one has no counter, and since you guys compare everything to strenghts and weaknesses, be reasonable and look at this wall, it has no counter. So its actually not legit.

The main purpose of double wall is to prevent someone from attacking you in 2 turns. How do you call the first one as a <counter> ? It just does not work. It cant even be considered as double wall because you can break it in 1 turn using bugs.

Laochra wall have a counter. You just need to break the first wall and in next turn the second wall. You have to hold 2 turns for do that. This is what make the wall suitable. That is the point of a double wall.

...... you srsly dont get it do you? Im talking about the bigg wall and turn 2 inner wall, not about another. You are talking about another. The whole point is that it is unfair you have to wait 2 turns to open a wall from the beginning, if it was in turn 5 or turn 6 i don care about it because I could do anything against it and it would be my own fault for not wfing it, but this i cant wf, only in turn 1. Which i am doing now.

Game is a game,and there will be always cheaters... But deal with it.And me thief? Please... Being better than you doesn't mean I'm a ''thief'' anyway i have no time to argue because it is not good.

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 09:55

Anyway, bottom line is, in my opinion, if i look at it realistically, we as a community, will never reach an agreement about this.In my opinion, deliberately fucking with your opponents walls, is not only illegal and unacceptable, but unsportsmanlike, cheap, cunty, faggy, behaviour that should be condemned, by everybody.The rules the community made state clearly, no wf and no entering enemy territory turn 1.To put your unit on the border to wallfuck an enemy walls turn 1, is like a little "window", like the ones , used by lawyers, to justify criminals.I am wholeheartedly against that.To the people who do it, i would suggest to use their brains, cause this is a game for the mind, to find ways to play around and counter their opponent tactic, in a fair and sportsmanlike manner.Otherwise, whats the point really?Who would like to win, by cheating?I know i dont.Doesnt even make sense to me, to do.Maybe people with social/psychologicall problems and low real life self esteem, will disagree with me, but personally i play for competition and fun and not just to win.If i feel i deserve to win, then yeah im gonna fight for it.

khal hit the nail on the head. tbh people who support this turn 1 wf to counter double walls, im just simply going to avoid playing you. Whether you realise it or not youre in the minority, over 200 cws to my name and a year on this game and you are the first people to do this to me. Its why i was so mad. Bitching about layers of walls that have existed since this game created and wf'ing turn 1 to counter it.

i'm not surprised at goblin, he plays shorter turn times to minimise wall usage, which is his preference gameplay wise, i am surprised at waffel, who bemoans the rushing style of the current generation.

bonker complains a few rules will make the game boring, he is wrong. What competitive game doesnt have a few basic rules and guidelines? Europe+ 3v3s have evolved into a metagame theyve been played so much. They need this, it will stop the drama and whining.

i would even accept goblins middle ground, but its not preferable. i dont see a reason to ban a strategic and legit move. Nobody has complained about double walls before. The argument that we should ban what has no counter is not necessarily a good one. single walls Turn 1 walls have no counter either but theres no call to ban those.

My opinion on the rules for competitive play would be:

1. no first turn wf
2 no invasion of opponents territory turn 1
3. in the case of accidental wf the broken walls must be considered present
4. No rewalling
5. No serbian Walling(im meh on the one, i guess its not a bad thing to encourage people to keep wfing their caps, but its such a rare play, and considered cheap)

in 99% of the games i play these rules are adhered to, whether intentional or not.

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 09:56

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 09:54

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 09:44

Zoom bugging what are u talking about? We didn't even mention any of this in this thread, you are totally misreading the whole subject.. before you merge into something please read it first.

Why the classic doublewall of 6 + 3 troops does not work anymore waffel? Because as laochra say, it can easy be broken by zoom bug. It is pointless to make an inside wall so it get broked by zoom bug. Hence why the big wall is an alternative.

Yes, but this one has no counter, and since you guys compare everything to strenghts and weaknesses, be reasonable and look at this wall, it has no counter. So its actually not legit.

Walling capital turn 1 is not legit then.

Why can't you accept that you are terrible wrong? You lost the argument the moment you decided to ignore my statement. Goblin is not arguing about walls, and bunker is giving his opinion not an argument.

Napisano przez Tundy, 15.10.2014 at 10:55

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 09:56

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 09:54

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 09:44

Zoom bugging what are u talking about? We didn't even mention any of this in this thread, you are totally misreading the whole subject.. before you merge into something please read it first.

Why the classic doublewall of 6 + 3 troops does not work anymore waffel? Because as laochra say, it can easy be broken by zoom bug. It is pointless to make an inside wall so it get broked by zoom bug. Hence why the big wall is an alternative.

Yes, but this one has no counter, and since you guys compare everything to strenghts and weaknesses, be reasonable and look at this wall, it has no counter. So its actually not legit.

Walling capital turn 1 is not legit then.

Why can't you accept that you are terrible wrong? You lost the argument the moment you decided to ignore my statement. Goblin is not arguing about walls, and bunker is giving his opinion not an argument.

I didn't ignore your statement?

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 10:50

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 09:55

Anyway, bottom line is, in my opinion, if i look at it realistically, we as a community, will never reach an agreement about this.In my opinion, deliberately fucking with your opponents walls, is not only illegal and unacceptable, but unsportsmanlike, cheap, cunty, faggy, behaviour that should be condemned, by everybody.The rules the community made state clearly, no wf and no entering enemy territory turn 1.To put your unit on the border to wallfuck an enemy walls turn 1, is like a little "window", like the ones , used by lawyers, to justify criminals.I am wholeheartedly against that.To the people who do it, i would suggest to use their brains, cause this is a game for the mind, to find ways to play around and counter their opponent tactic, in a fair and sportsmanlike manner.Otherwise, whats the point really?Who would like to win, by cheating?I know i dont.Doesnt even make sense to me, to do.Maybe people with social/psychologicall problems and low real life self esteem, will disagree with me, but personally i play for competition and fun and not just to win.If i feel i deserve to win, then yeah im gonna fight for it.

khal hit the nail on the head. tbh people who support this turn 1 wf to counter double walls, im just simply going to avoid playing you. Whether you realise it or not youre in the minority, over 200 cws to my name and a year on this game and you are the first people to do this to me. Its why i was so mad. Bitching about layers of walls that have existed since this game created and wf'ing turn 1 to counter it.

i'm not surprised at goblin, he plays shorter turn times to minimise wall usage, which is his preference gameplay wise, i am surprised at waffel, who bemoans the rushing style of the current generation.

bonker complains a few rules will make the game boring, he is wrong. What competitive game doesnt have a few basic rules and guidelines? Europe+ 3v3s have evolved into a metagame theyve been played so much. They need this, it will stop the drama and whining.

i would even accept goblins middle ground, but its not preferable. i dont see a reason to ban a strategic and legit move. Nobody has complained about double walls before. The argument that we should ban what has no counter is not necessarily a good one. single walls Turn 1 walls have no counter either but theres no call to ban those.

My opinion on the rules for competitive play would be:

1. no first turn wf
2 no invasion of opponents territory turn 1
3. in the case of accidental wf the broken walls must be considered present
4. No rewalling
5. No serbian Walling(im meh on the one, i guess its not a bad thing to encourage people to keep wfing their caps, but its such a rare play, and considered cheap)

in 99% of the games i play these rules are adhered to, whether intentional or not.

First off all, I never wrote that down? Idk why my name is in it lol?

Second of all, Like I said I agree with khal, this game shouldn't be about this at all. But you know, I dont want to bann that wall at all games, just not in CW's If the opponnt clan tells you he doesn't want that move in a game can't you just respect that? We cried about rewall/serbian walls yes, but we never said to ban it, because we could prevent it and should not be lazy to put another extra wf. This wall can't be prevented (saying this for the 200000th time.) that is my whole point.
I agree with your opinion about the 5 rules, but I think there should be also a rule to accept the wishes of the opponent clan in clanwar, like I said above in this comment.
I have no problem with you personaly khal, neither do I with goblin or khal or clovis. Everybody may have an opinion, but dont push your opinion into people their heads/mouth. Just talk with the clan and discuss about it. If you are not willing to talk about this clearly with them, then the problem is really you not them.
Just stop making a fuzz of this all and think about what I said, also goblin's rules should be okey too. If this happens im fine cwing you guys and won't wf turn 1, but if you guys say in cw that you wont do that wall, but keep doing it I will start wfing turn 1 again.

Lao you know me well enough that I dont break these kind of rules to troll or to win a game, I don't care about the winning or losing, I care about enjoying it, even if i lose or win it and I like to play with respective people who dont use these kind of cheap things to win a game :/

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 11:14

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 10:50

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 09:55

Anyway, bottom line is, in my opinion, if i look at it realistically, we as a community, will never reach an agreement about this.In my opinion, deliberately fucking with your opponents walls, is not only illegal and unacceptable, but unsportsmanlike, cheap, cunty, faggy, behaviour that should be condemned, by everybody.The rules the community made state clearly, no wf and no entering enemy territory turn 1.To put your unit on the border to wallfuck an enemy walls turn 1, is like a little "window", like the ones , used by lawyers, to justify criminals.I am wholeheartedly against that.To the people who do it, i would suggest to use their brains, cause this is a game for the mind, to find ways to play around and counter their opponent tactic, in a fair and sportsmanlike manner.Otherwise, whats the point really?Who would like to win, by cheating?I know i dont.Doesnt even make sense to me, to do.Maybe people with social/psychologicall problems and low real life self esteem, will disagree with me, but personally i play for competition and fun and not just to win.If i feel i deserve to win, then yeah im gonna fight for it.

khal hit the nail on the head. tbh people who support this turn 1 wf to counter double walls, im just simply going to avoid playing you. Whether you realise it or not youre in the minority, over 200 cws to my name and a year on this game and you are the first people to do this to me. Its why i was so mad. Bitching about layers of walls that have existed since this game created and wf'ing turn 1 to counter it.

i'm not surprised at goblin, he plays shorter turn times to minimise wall usage, which is his preference gameplay wise, i am surprised at waffel, who bemoans the rushing style of the current generation.

bonker complains a few rules will make the game boring, he is wrong. What competitive game doesnt have a few basic rules and guidelines? Europe+ 3v3s have evolved into a metagame theyve been played so much. They need this, it will stop the drama and whining.

i would even accept goblins middle ground, but its not preferable. i dont see a reason to ban a strategic and legit move. Nobody has complained about double walls before. The argument that we should ban what has no counter is not necessarily a good one. single walls Turn 1 walls have no counter either but theres no call to ban those.

My opinion on the rules for competitive play would be:

1. no first turn wf
2 no invasion of opponents territory turn 1
3. in the case of accidental wf the broken walls must be considered present
4. No rewalling
5. No serbian Walling(im meh on the one, i guess its not a bad thing to encourage people to keep wfing their caps, but its such a rare play, and considered cheap)

in 99% of the games i play these rules are adhered to, whether intentional or not.

First off all, I never wrote that down? Idk why my name is in it lol?

Second of all, Like I said I agree with khal, this game shouldn't be about this at all. But you know, I dont want to bann that wall at all games, just not in CW's If the opponnt clan tells you he doesn't want that move in a game can't you just respect that? We cried about rewall/serbian walls yes, but we never said to ban it, because we could prevent it and should not be lazy to put another extra wf. This wall can't be prevented (saying this for the 200000th time.) that is my whole point.
I agree with your opinion about the 5 rules, but I think there should be also a rule to accept the wishes of the opponent clan in clanwar, like I said above in this comment.
I have no problem with you personaly khal, neither do I with goblin or khal or clovis. Everybody may have an opinion, but dont push your opinion into people their heads/mouth. Just talk with the clan and discuss about it. If you are not willing to talk about this clearly with them, then the problem is really you not them.
Just stop making a fuzz of this all and think about what I said, also goblin's rules should be okey too. If this happens im fine cwing you guys and won't wf turn 1, but if you guys say in cw that you wont do that wall, but keep doing it I will start wfing turn 1 again.

Lao you know me well enough that I dont break these kind of rules to troll or to win a game, I don't care about the winning or losing, I care about enjoying it, even if i lose or win it and I like to play with respective people who dont use these kind of cheap things to win a game :/

finally youre being reasonable, but you didnt discuss it before with illyria before that first turn wf. You told syrian to do it knowing how id react, why are you surprised that i was pissed? I want to enjoy my games too. but i dont want people wf'ing me turn 1.

Well at least unlike w4r, you didnt laugh in my face afterwards.

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 11:24

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 11:14

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 10:50

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 09:55

Anyway, bottom line is, in my opinion, if i look at it realistically, we as a community, will never reach an agreement about this.In my opinion, deliberately fucking with your opponents walls, is not only illegal and unacceptable, but unsportsmanlike, cheap, cunty, faggy, behaviour that should be condemned, by everybody.The rules the community made state clearly, no wf and no entering enemy territory turn 1.To put your unit on the border to wallfuck an enemy walls turn 1, is like a little "window", like the ones , used by lawyers, to justify criminals.I am wholeheartedly against that.To the people who do it, i would suggest to use their brains, cause this is a game for the mind, to find ways to play around and counter their opponent tactic, in a fair and sportsmanlike manner.Otherwise, whats the point really?Who would like to win, by cheating?I know i dont.Doesnt even make sense to me, to do.Maybe people with social/psychologicall problems and low real life self esteem, will disagree with me, but personally i play for competition and fun and not just to win.If i feel i deserve to win, then yeah im gonna fight for it.

khal hit the nail on the head. tbh people who support this turn 1 wf to counter double walls, im just simply going to avoid playing you. Whether you realise it or not youre in the minority, over 200 cws to my name and a year on this game and you are the first people to do this to me. Its why i was so mad. Bitching about layers of walls that have existed since this game created and wf'ing turn 1 to counter it.

i'm not surprised at goblin, he plays shorter turn times to minimise wall usage, which is his preference gameplay wise, i am surprised at waffel, who bemoans the rushing style of the current generation.

bonker complains a few rules will make the game boring, he is wrong. What competitive game doesnt have a few basic rules and guidelines? Europe+ 3v3s have evolved into a metagame theyve been played so much. They need this, it will stop the drama and whining.

i would even accept goblins middle ground, but its not preferable. i dont see a reason to ban a strategic and legit move. Nobody has complained about double walls before. The argument that we should ban what has no counter is not necessarily a good one. single walls Turn 1 walls have no counter either but theres no call to ban those.

My opinion on the rules for competitive play would be:

1. no first turn wf
2 no invasion of opponents territory turn 1
3. in the case of accidental wf the broken walls must be considered present
4. No rewalling
5. No serbian Walling(im meh on the one, i guess its not a bad thing to encourage people to keep wfing their caps, but its such a rare play, and considered cheap)

in 99% of the games i play these rules are adhered to, whether intentional or not.

First off all, I never wrote that down? Idk why my name is in it lol?

Second of all, Like I said I agree with khal, this game shouldn't be about this at all. But you know, I dont want to bann that wall at all games, just not in CW's If the opponnt clan tells you he doesn't want that move in a game can't you just respect that? We cried about rewall/serbian walls yes, but we never said to ban it, because we could prevent it and should not be lazy to put another extra wf. This wall can't be prevented (saying this for the 200000th time.) that is my whole point.
I agree with your opinion about the 5 rules, but I think there should be also a rule to accept the wishes of the opponent clan in clanwar, like I said above in this comment.
I have no problem with you personaly khal, neither do I with goblin or khal or clovis. Everybody may have an opinion, but dont push your opinion into people their heads/mouth. Just talk with the clan and discuss about it. If you are not willing to talk about this clearly with them, then the problem is really you not them.
Just stop making a fuzz of this all and think about what I said, also goblin's rules should be okey too. If this happens im fine cwing you guys and won't wf turn 1, but if you guys say in cw that you wont do that wall, but keep doing it I will start wfing turn 1 again.

Lao you know me well enough that I dont break these kind of rules to troll or to win a game, I don't care about the winning or losing, I care about enjoying it, even if i lose or win it and I like to play with respective people who dont use these kind of cheap things to win a game :/

finally youre being reasonable, but you didnt discuss it before with illyria before that first turn wf. You told syrian to do it knowing how id react, why are you surprised that i was pissed? I want to enjoy my games too. but i dont want people wf'ing me turn 1.

Well at least unlike w4r, you didnt laugh in my face afterwards.

I told in spectator chats plenty of times, and also in your forum thread, and we had an convo about it in game too, i think it was my fault to not saying it in the CW, but like I said I wasn't playing that cw and my members didn't wanted it either.

+ The way khal insulted both goblin and me was not cool and rational...

Why is this still being discussed lol, this is turning into (already is tbh) a flame thread, big walls around a person's capital arent a problem and players who wf them by being in that person's land are idiots and should be banned by players from individual games. However I think that in the case where a person wfs belgium and accidently hits your wall, players should just agree not to exploit the wf, we are better than intentional wfers.

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 11:26

I told in spectator chats plenty of times, and also in your forum thread, and we had an convo about it in game too, i think it was my fault to not saying it in the CW, but like I said I wasn't playing that cw and my members didn't wanted it either.

+ The way khal insulted both goblin and me was not cool and rational...

goblin called us bitches, and made threats/promises. You told lies about myself and illyria and namecalled. You reap what you sow.

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 11:39

Napisano przez Waffel, 15.10.2014 at 11:26

I told in spectator chats plenty of times, and also in your forum thread, and we had an convo about it in game too, i think it was my fault to not saying it in the CW, but like I said I wasn't playing that cw and my members didn't wanted it either.

+ The way khal insulted both goblin and me was not cool and rational...

goblin called us bitches, and made threats/promises. You told lies about myself and illyria and namecalled. You reap what you sow.

I didnt tell lies about you or illyria wtf? why u guys keep calling me liar..

I hope after 8 pages that you guys have distilled and clarified your standpoints. I wasn't going to reply till your mud throwing stopped. It does look like it has calmed down a bit. Please respond in kind.

My same exact paragraph from the other thread still works here. Wonderful.

Napisano przez Desu, 07.10.2014 at 03:32

However the big wall Laochra made is essentially your capital wall. You remake your capital wall the next turn, trying to earn yourself another turn of safety. There'd be no problem if you made a 3 man capital wall inside then a large wall all around, he'd have to hit your inside wall to get to you, but in this case there was nothing to hit besides your capital. He graciously did not rush your capital. He just placed a simple wallfuck. I'm sure you know I'm against wallglitching of ANY sort, or "rewalling" as you want it named, but this just seems a derivative of it. You're still remaking your capital wall. Just make a 3 man wall inside too, problem solved.

Your wall around your capital is your capital wall. Kind of redundant, right?

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 10:50

Whether you realise it or not youre in the minority, over 200 cws to my name and a year on this game and you are the first people to do this to me. Its why i was so mad. Bitching about layers of walls that have existed since this game created and wf'ing turn 1 to counter it.

This is incorrect. People made layers of walls since the start, but what you're doing is a new-ish concept of remaking your initial wall because your opponent cannot wallfuck when you remake it.

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 10:50

1. no first turn wf
2 no invasion of opponents territory turn 1
3. in the case of accidental wf the broken walls must be considered present
4. No rewalling
5. No serbian Walling(im meh on the one, i guess its not a bad thing to encourage people to keep wfing their caps, but its such a rare play, and considered cheap)

in 99% of the games i play these rules are adhered to, whether intentional or not.

I agree with these rules. I would also agree with Goblin's proposal in the earlier pages. If you wish to follow them, use 3 units to make that inner wall then the outer wall wouldn't be your capital wall anymore.

Until then, while I won't intentionally wallfuck you for the sake of it, but I won't condemn what Syrian did as wrong either.

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 11:39

goblin called us bitches, and made threats/promises.

No, no dear Laochra, dont turn things around now ...in this topic khalessi was the first one to strike at me. While i was proposing solutions he responded with "stop crying", and you were ignoring my words and continued to do what i asked you to not, turn this into is rewalling good or bad.

And see what desu said above about big wall being your capital wall ...when i said that, clovis started trolling me like im a moron.

I should leave this topic now ...im sure desu will say the same things i did, but you guys will im sure show respect to him and his opinions even doe they are the same ones you spited and mocked when i posted them.

Fuck you all.

Napisano przez Desu, 15.10.2014 at 12:34

I hope after 8 pages that you guys have distilled and clarified your standpoints. I wasn't going to reply till your mud throwing stopped. It does look like it has calmed down a bit. Please respond in kind.

My same exact paragraph from the other thread still works here. Wonderful.

Napisano przez Desu, 07.10.2014 at 03:32

However the big wall Laochra made is essentially your capital wall. You remake your capital wall the next turn, trying to earn yourself another turn of safety. There'd be no problem if you made a 3 man capital wall inside then a large wall all around, he'd have to hit your inside wall to get to you, but in this case there was nothing to hit besides your capital. He graciously did not rush your capital. He just placed a simple wallfuck. I'm sure you know I'm against wallglitching of ANY sort, or "rewalling" as you want it named, but this just seems a derivative of it. You're still remaking your capital wall. Just make a 3 man wall inside too, problem solved.

Your wall around your capital is your capital wall. Kind of redundant, right?

i never understood why you made this point. My gripe was that he opened the outerwall on my territory turn 1 with the intention to prevent me from keeping my cap walled until turn 4. The existence of the inner wall turn 1 is irrelevant to this. By your logic the outerwall is considered a cap wall, so by wfing that wall he essentially committed a huge breach of etiquette, an attack on my capital the following turn wouldve caused outrage by my clan and spectators alike. He should not be commended for this. I tried to wall my cap on my territory, he opened the wall. I couldve walled inside the big wall turn 1, but we'd still have the same issue. Smaller double walls are not effective due to the zoomout feature. they can be opened in 1 turn, this is the only solution i know of.

Napisano przez Desu, 15.10.2014 at 12:34

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 10:50

Whether you realise it or not youre in the minority, over 200 cws to my name and a year on this game and you are the first people to do this to me. Its why i was so mad. Bitching about layers of walls that have existed since this game created and wf'ing turn 1 to counter it.

This is incorrect. People made layers of walls since the start, but what you're doing is a new-ish concept of remaking your initial wall because your opponent cannot wallfuck when you remake it.

i have encountered this in many forms over the previous few months. id seen it by players in turk, specifically mauzer, and i remember vaguely some spain player doing it, beyond that i dont remember. But i doubt after 3 years i am the first to discover a double layer wall in limited space which cant be broken by using the zoom feature or by that odd wf mechanic where if you kill the outerwall and place a wf closeby it opens the innerwall too.

It might be a new move for you, but without evidence to the contrary, we cant know.

Napisano przez Desu, 15.10.2014 at 12:34

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 10:50

1. no first turn wf
2 no invasion of opponents territory turn 1
3. in the case of accidental wf the broken walls must be considered present
4. No rewalling
5. No serbian Walling(im meh on the one, i guess its not a bad thing to encourage people to keep wfing their caps, but its such a rare play, and considered cheap)

in 99% of the games i play these rules are adhered to, whether intentional or not.

I agree with these rules. I would also agree with Goblin's proposal in the earlier pages. If you wish to follow them, use 3 units to make that inner wall then the outer wall wouldn't be your capital wall anymore.

Until then, while I won't intentionally wallfuck you for the sake of it, but I won't condemn what Syrian did as wrong either.

i should clarify, no first turn wf of walls on an opponents territory, if the wall extends over water or outside the territory. that part of the wall can be opened. By my rules what syrian and w4r did is a rule break, by goblins rules, my double wall is a rulebreak.

Napisano przez Acquiesce, 15.10.2014 at 06:03

Napisano przez Permamuted, 13.10.2014 at 14:47

I'm sorry but theres absolutely nothing illegal about a big wall around your capital turn 1.

This is rewalling all over again. For those who oppose big walling you have three options.
1) wf your opponents first turn. (in which case you forfeit any argument you had against big walling seeing as it was certainly contingent on people agreeing to guidelines more complex than the one you just broke.)
2) Cry about it in threads like this one and hope you change people's minds. (I've only done a cursory glance of these 6 pages of posts but I don't see this as a strong method to get what you want.)
3) Get the mods/ admins to enforce your big wall ban through coercion. (Never gonna happen we don't even enforce no wf first turn.)

GL with this crusade

nobody mentioned a crusade, or even coercion. this is an appeal to logic and reason. how many arguments do you want to read and participate in about rewalling, serbian walling and double walls before you finally act? Perhaps 2-3 years of threads and inter clan arguments over this werent enough, do you need another few years of the same?

As a mod your job is to protect and serve the community, the rules are your guideline to do so. Given the level of tension this causes youre failing in your job. Just look at this thread, a difference of opinion and youve people making threats and namecalling. The players need to know where they stand.7

My proposal would be the mod controlled vote by mail for r7s and above. Something like a 70% majority vote and a rule gets enforced. <70% and nothing changes. Its a bit of effort, but it will be worth it.

bonker accuses me of being overanalytical, look at how the europe+ metagame has evolved. how can you not be overanalytical. I shouldnt have to explain this to you acqui, and most certainly not desu.

Napisano przez Goblin, 15.10.2014 at 13:48

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 11:39

goblin called us bitches, and made threats/promises.

No, no dear Laochra, dont turn things around now ...in this topic khalessi was the first one to strike at me. While i was proposing solutions he responded with "stop crying", and you were ignoring my words and continued to do what i asked you to not, turn this into is rewalling good or bad.

And see what desu said above about big wall being your capital wall ...when i said that, clovis started trolling me like im a moron.

I should leave this topic now ...im sure desu will say the same things i did, but you guys will im sure show respect to him and his opinions even doe they are the same ones you spited and mocked when i posted them.

Fuck you all.

and what did i do to you, to deserve being called a bitch and threatened with first turn wfs on mycap, i dared disagree with you? me and khal are on the same page on this, but we're different people.

You ignored to comment on my proposal and kept talking about your opinion on big wall rewalling - i asked you that you dont and that we put aside our opinions in finding the solution ...its not nice that i have to repost something several times without an answer.

I never said double wall is rule breaker ...you guys need to stop doing this with claiming i said something i didnt - proves you didnt read my posts like khalessi didnt when he called me out on "crying about rewalling and serbian rewalling"

- 2 posts above his mock post i said: rewalling and serbian rewalling should be allowed ...who is the asshole here?

And i will, unlike you, comment on your proposal about voting on this matter ...and my opinion is big NO!

Democracy is two idiots outvoting one smart man.

And yes, you and alot of players analyze this game to much ...and considering we could right books about only europe and our books would probably tell a different story i say we keep it simple.

Thinkin of writting a book about turn blocking ...gona call it "TB or not TB".

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 14:11

i never understood why you made this point. My gripe was that he opened the outerwall on my territory turn 1 with the intention to prevent me from keeping my cap walled until turn 4. The existence of the inner wall turn 1 is irrelevant to this. By your logic the outerwall is considered a cap wall, so by wfing that wall he essentially committed a huge breach of etiquette, an attack on my capital the following turn wouldve caused outrage by my clan and spectators alike. He should not be commended for this. I tried to wall my cap on my territory, he opened the wall. I couldve walled inside the big wall turn 1, but we'd still have the same issue. Smaller double walls are not effective due to the zoomout feature. they can be opened in 1 turn, this is the only solution i know of.

Yes he did open your capital wall with the intention to stop you from re-walling it. He cannot stop it otherwise. The existence of the inner wall makes that your capital wall instead of the big wall around. At that point I(and my clan) would treat the big wall as being in place, even if wf'd. However, as the big wall is your capital wall, something has to be done to prevent you from rewalling. Syrian just applied the way to avoid it. He, and also W4r in the previous thread, never attacked your capital turn 2, they respected that. We would not have the same issue if you simply placed 3 units around your capital, and created the large 11 unit wall around that wall too.

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 14:11

i have encountered this in many forms over the previous few months. id seen it by players in turk, specifically mauzer, and i remember vaguely some spain player doing it, beyond that i dont remember. But i doubt after 3 years i am the first to discover a double layer wall in limited space which cant be broken by using the zoom feature or by that odd wf mechanic where if you kill the outerwall and place a wf closeby it opens the innerwall too.

It might be a new move for you, but without evidence to the contrary, we cant know.

Your doubt is correct, you're obviously not the first. I said new-ish because I've seen variants of it as well. However it was not put into common practice, unlike what we have now. People did not constantly do this. It died out. And they usually had a 3 man wall inside ensuring they couldn't be hit for 2 turns.

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 14:11

i should clarify, no first turn wf of walls on an opponents territory, if the wall extends over water or outside the territory. that part of the wall can be opened. By my rules what syrian and w4r did is a rule break, by goblins rules, my double wall is a rulebreak.

Yes it is.

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 10:50

4. No rewalling

Both your rules 1 and 4 are broken in this situation. 4 by you, and 1 by Syrian/W4r. Breaking rule 1 was a reaction to you breaking rule 4. Simple isn't it?

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 14:11

My proposal would be the mod controlled vote by mail for r7s and above. Something like a 70% majority vote and a rule gets enforced. <70% and nothing changes. Its a bit of effort, but it will be worth it..

A popular vote wouldn't change what we are capable of.

While me and Acqu have completely different mindsets when we look at wall glitching, and I acknowledge that, we seem to agree on a lot of other things. Specially his point 3 you quoted.

Napisano przez Acquiesce, 15.10.2014 at 06:03

3) Get the mods/ admins to enforce your big wall ban through coercion. (Never gonna happen we don't even enforce no wf first turn.)

While I would agree to those 5 rules you listed, and would agree to the single rule Goblin had in mind, there is still no reason for Moderators/admins to enforce it because it happens every single game when you start playing atWar. We'd need 20 more moderators to watch. I'm not in favour of promoting that many individuals. The only way it could become official is when a mechanic is put into place to stop it.

We need to prevent these things as a community, shun those who break the standard etiquette, and react to them. This is what we've been doing all this time.

Again, I'm completely against wallglitching of any kind. But I know where the rules stand, and what the moderators are capable of.

@ the rest of the conversation, name calling and insults do not get you anywhere. Settle down and let it go. Look at the topic at hand instead.

Napisano przez Desu, 15.10.2014 at 14:46

Yes he did open your capital wall with the intention to stop you from re-walling it. He cannot stop it otherwise. The existence of the inner wall makes that your capital wall instead of the big wall around. At that point I(and my clan) would treat the big wall as being in place, even if wf'd. However, as the big wall is your capital wall, something has to be done to prevent you from rewalling. Syrian just applied the way to avoid it. He, and also W4r in the previous thread, never attacked your capital turn 2, they respected that. We would not have the same issue if you simply placed 3 units around your capital, and created the large 11 unit wall around that wall too.

yes, altho i dont know if you can speak for your clan, bonker and goblin have made their positions on this clear.

Napisano przez Desu, 15.10.2014 at 14:46

While me and Acqu have completely different mindsets when we look at wall glitching, and I acknowledge that, we seem to agree on a lot of other things. Specially his point 3 you quoted.

i am not sure where you and acqui felt theres been attempts at coercion... you'll have to point this out to me. I specifically asked you to look at these posts because 1. you dont know me and are unbiased so will be frank. 2. youre active and play competitively so have a vested interest.

If you disagree and have reasons fair enough, but theres been no coercion...

Napisano przez Desu, 15.10.2014 at 14:46

3) Get the mods/ admins to enforce your big wall ban through coercion. (Never gonna happen we don't even enforce no wf first turn.)
While I would agree to those 5 rules you listed, and would agree to the single rule Goblin had in mind, there is still no reason for Moderators/admins to enforce it because it happens every single game when you start playing atWar. We'd need 20 more moderators to watch. I'm not in favour of promoting that many individuals. The only way it could become official is when a mechanic is put into place to stop it.

We need to prevent these things as a community, shun those who break the standard etiquette, and react to them. This is what we've been doing all this time.

Again, I'm completely against wallglitching of any kind. But I know where the rules stand, and what the moderators are capable of.

@ the rest of the conversation, name calling and insults do not get you anywhere. Settle down and let it go. Look at the topic at hand instead.

I'm not suggesting massive moderation action, its not even remotely necessary. The mapmakers and now the players have the ability to ban rulebreakers from their games. The non competitive community is mostly self moderated in this.

My suggestion is so that if someone decided to wf me turn 1 in a duel or cw, i could screenshot it and a mod could remove the duel/cw. Currently there is nothing in place like this. the player who wf'd doesnt even need to be punished. Sure illyria could cw stalins tomorrow and wf you all turn 1, laugh in your faces and win with this, you can complain, you can condemn us and bycott future cws, but theres nothing you can do about it, that cw is done. Would you feel differently if you were taking the competition seriously and that cw cost you the season?

and btw, sure goblins right democracy is flawed, but he just applied the logic of a tyrant... its the best solution we have right now... unless he has something else to offer.

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 15:12

My suggestion is so that if someone decided to wf me turn 1 in a duel or cw, i could screenshot it and a mod could remove the duel/cw.

and btw, sure goblins right democracy is flawed, but he just applied the logic of a tyrant... its the best solution we have right now... unless he has something else to offer.

I sent you an idea of mine i had way way back...

Make capital cities unattackable until turn 3:

- game already recognises capital cities (could amok make this happen?)
- first turn wall fuck becomes useless (on capitals at least)

This idea i propose not as some "go ahead an wf someone turn 1", but as a solution for the fear of your city being exposed turn 2 and someone exploiting this.

Think this would also mean alot more for all does low ranks and players in other games who are either unaware of the unwritten rule or are just exploiting assholes ...we after all always respected the immunity of capital on turn 2.


btw. man ...if you made a big wall and an inner wall. If i somehow broke both walls in one turn ...you can be sure that i would act as if i broke only the outer wall.

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 15:12

yes, altho i dont know if you can speak for your clan, bonker and goblin have made their positions on this clear.

So you agree with my statement then? Just make a 3 man wall inside? It wasn't clear in your post, yet you quoted the whole paragraph then said, "yes."

As for my clan, if we agreed upon something I know we'll most likely follow that agreement. They have their positions, but we also have the status quo, which they seem to follow to my knowledge.

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 15:12

i am not sure where you and acqui felt theres been attempts at coercion... you'll have to point this out to me. I specifically asked you to look at these posts because 1. you dont know me and are unbiased so will be frank. 2. youre active and play competitively so have a vested interest.

If you disagree and have reasons fair enough, but theres been no coercion...

There wasn't any. Acqu was just making a point. He clearly stated you were doing the 2nd point, making a thread about it, and then stated point 3.

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 15:12

I'm not suggesting massive moderation action, its not even remotely necessary. The mapmakers and now the players have the ability to ban rulebreakers from their games. The non competitive community is mostly self moderated in this.

My suggestion is so that if someone decided to wf me turn 1 in a duel or cw, i could screenshot it and a mod could remove the duel/cw. Currently there is nothing in place like this. the player who wf'd doesnt even need to be punished. Sure illyria could cw stalins tomorrow and wf you all turn 1 and win with this, you can complain, you can condemn us and bycott future cws, but theres nothing you can do about it, that cw is done. Would you feel differently if you were taking the competition seriously and that cw cost you the season?

and btw, sure goblins right democracy is flawed, but he just applied the logic of a tyrant... its the best solution we have right now... unless he has something else to offer.

I see your point. It'd be community self-moderation.. to a point. You realize administrators are the ones to act if something like ELO/Cln Wars are done with glitching. Moderators would need to be given more powers over more important parts of the game in this case, else we'd have to bug the administrators every time something happens. If we were to enforce the competitive players etiquette, first turn wf'ing etc, you know we'd have to do that for every game too right? Not just official games. Lots of lower ranks without prior knowledge would suddenly have a lot of problems when they got into the main room. Even right now, you run into rank 6-7-8's who join a 3 vs 3 and wallfuck first turn.

As I said, to a point. It's too much.

About the whole,

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 15:12

Sure illyria could cw stalins tomorrow and wf you all turn 1 and win with this, you can complain, you can condemn us and bycott future cws, but theres nothing you can do about it, that cw is done. Would you feel differently if you were taking the competition seriously and that cw cost you the season?

Yeah we'd just boycott the cheating clan and spread what they've done to other clans. If the CW cost us the season, we at least have the high ground for all interactions after that point. In fact, I gain more than lose in comparison to a clan that cheats vs me, despite not many being able to see that right away. You would be harmed in the future while I just lose a stupid badge on the side of my clan page that nobody looks at anyway.

Self moderation already works. Let's just come to a unified rule set of etiquette for the community itself. An official stance will not work without game mechanics being adjusted/fixed.

Waffel, I read part, but not all, the post. And this is what we know:

Step 1: If you want to make a double wall, you can happy use 6 outside units, and 3 inside units.

However, you can no longer do it. Why? because zoom buggers. They wont respect that you have two layers of walls, they will break it.

Solution: Laochra's wall. You cant break it. Why? because there is NOT INSIDE WALL. This mean, you CANNOT ZOOM BUG ON IT

In other words....

Cause: Zoom bug
Consequence: Big wall with no inner wall.

You blame laochra for have the smart idea of that kind of wall. Why dont you blame zoom buggers? As it was say, is pointless to make an inner wall if it can be easy broken. What is the point of making two layers if the other player can break both walls in one turn? Does this even have logic?

How would you suggest to do double wall from now? 12 units? because serious, that is 4x the first wall. Not even turkey have troops for waste like this.

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 07:09

An excelent solution for this problem would be:

1) I make a 6 + 3 wall.
2) I screenshot the wall, and the turn It was made.
3) If any player break both the outside and inside wall by zoom bugs, I will take screenshot.
4) I will report him to Mods, and they can punish the player PLUS make that game invalid. Because zoom bug is, after all, a bug.

Or make the admins to fix the zooming bugs but they are working on html5 so this wont happen. Deal with it.

Napisano przez Goblin, 15.10.2014 at 15:42

btw. man ...if you made a big wall and an inner wall. If i somehow broke both walls in one turn ...you can be sure that i would act as if i broke only the outer wall.

I am glad you say this on public, but talk about youself please. As I said, there are a bunch of players that even if they wallfuck your outer wall, they would still break your inner wall. Why? no idea. It happened me in many CW'S.

meh... if they will still break the inner wall better to not make the inner wall. It have logic, doesnt it?

Napisano przez Permamuted, 15.10.2014 at 14:11

As a mod your job is to protect and serve the community, the rules are your guideline to do so. Given the level of tension this causes youre failing in your job. Just look at this thread, a difference of opinion and youve people making threats and namecalling. The players need to know where they stand.

LOL. Acqui accepted the work and he is working as Moderator for free, because he dont earn money doing this. Why do you tell him "how to do his job" ? Either use private or do no tell.... It is kinda disrespectful. Even if in your opinion he is wrong, it is still disrespectful.

Learned in the hard way when I had issues with TopHats, and later, with Desu. But at least Desu agree to talk to me about it. TopHats didnt, and he is right because I literally fault his respect on forums.

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 16:47

Calm the fuck down.

Explain to me the zoom bug...



And "you blame laochra for have smart idea of that kind of wall" made me smile ...are you here since yesterday or something?

Napisano przez Goblin, 15.10.2014 at 18:21

Explain to me the zoom bug...



And "you blame laochra for have smart idea of that kind of wall" made me smile

9 + 3 = 12 units. I say it in my last reply:

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 16:47

You blame laochra for have the smart idea of that kind of wall. Why dont you blame zoom buggers? As it was say, is pointless to make an inner wall if it can be easy broken. What is the point of making two layers if the other player can break both walls in one turn? Does this even have logic?

How would you suggest to do double wall from now? 12 units? because serious, that is 4x the first wall. Not even turkey have troops for waste like this.

Thanks I am welcome. Also if you can reply to this:

Napisano przez Goblin, 15.10.2014 at 15:42

btw. man ...if you made a big wall and an inner wall. If i somehow broke both walls in one turn ...you can be sure that i would act as if i broke only the outer wall.

I am glad you say this on public, but talk about youself please. As I said, there are a bunch of players that even if they wallfuck your outer wall, they would still break your inner wall. Why? no idea. It happened me in many CW'S.

meh... if they will still break the inner wall better to not make the inner wall. It have logic, doesnt it?

Thanks I am welcome again.

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 18:24

9 + 3 = 12 units. I say it in my last reply:

What the fuck ...i see no explanation on how someone can break the inner wall.

And as your english, you need to learn how to fuckin count ...since i used 11 units in my picture.

Napisano przez Goblin, 15.10.2014 at 18:29

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 18:24

9 + 3 = 12 units. I say it in my last reply:

What the fuck ...i see no explanation on how someone can break the inner wall.

And as your english, you need to learn how to fuckin count ...since i used 11 units in my picture.

11...12... why you pick whatever you can for attack my argument? And how does count have relation with english?

Please stop picking it in pierces, rather, pick it completery.

Thanks

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 18:32

11...12... why you pick whatever you can for attack my argument? And how does count have relation with english?

Please stop picking it in pierces, rather, pick it completery.

Thanks

Again you havent explained the zoom bug ...and again you are now crying over something you have been doing to me the whole fuckin day you fuckin troll shit.

Please stop picking it in pierces, rather, pick it completery. <------ and this gave me cancer

Explain the zoom bug!

Stop dropping my name into one argument or another, I don't care anymore and will continue the way I have always played, thanks.

Napisano przez Goblin, 15.10.2014 at 18:36

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 18:32

11...12... why you pick whatever you can for attack my argument? And how does count have relation with english?

Please stop picking it in pierces, rather, pick it completery.

Thanks

Again you havent explained the zoom bug ...and again you are now crying over something you have been doing to me the whole fuckin day you fuckin troll shit.

Please stop picking it in pierces, rather, pick it completery. <------ and this gave me cancer

Explain the zoom bug!

ok, I'l respond your question first.

As for your wall ( Because I think you know the zoom bug right? ), you cannot zoom bug on it. Assuming the wall got corretly formed and under normal circumstances, you nee d to wait at least 2 turns in orden to access the capital. Your double wall is well made.

Which lead me to this, my point 3 when I stand for an opinion in page 6:

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 06:46

3) Even if Laochra had walled inside, there are still some players that would break the inside wall. This happened me once while I was CWing evoL ( I walled with 8 units outside and 3 inside, I got wfed 1st turn and he still break my inside wall) and happens to me in almost every scenario when I and someone end up wfing each others in turn 1 - he do like there was no wall and break my inside wall.

How high ranks does not respect the walls is very clearn in this example:

in my tourney match aganist Chess. I told him " Dont attack kuwait. Game didn't walled it"
when the wall was up and there was no wfing unit. This is a common bug. ( And no, the wall was made and next turn it just did not appear up).

Guess what: Chess not only attacked it, but also with half of his stack.#R.I.P my general.

There is just no guarantee, with wall inside or without wall inside, that the other player will act polite and respect it. We where fine with the 6 + 3 wall.... until someone started to break them by zoom bugs. I dunno if there is even a high rank here that would respect a 6 outside + 3 inside wall.

For number 2 and number 3.... I support big wall with no inside units. Though, as I said from the start, A post wont charge this.

I also feel glad when you say and desu stands that SM does respect big wall + inside wall combo:

Napisano przez clovis1122, 15.10.2014 at 18:24

Napisano przez Goblin, 15.10.2014 at 15:42

btw. man ...if you made a big wall and an inner wall. If i somehow broke both walls in one turn ...you can be sure that i would act as if i broke only the outer wall.

I am glad you say this on public, but talk about youself please. As I said, there are a bunch of players that even if they wallfuck your outer wall, they would still break your inner wall. Why? no idea. It happened me in many CW'S.

meh... if they will still break the inner wall better to not make the inner wall. It have logic, doesnt it?

You can just say I had bad experienced, but was, or better, I am used to use big wall + inside wall combo. Yet they still break my inside wall. This is why, before they break my inside wall on purpose I prefer to spend my 3 units on somenthing more useful

I wish I could has took screenshot of that situation in europe+ , but I sure have screenshot of this happening on scenario even between professional players. This are two screenshot, one in turn 1, and other in turn 2. When we got wallfucked on turn 1 I respect both Kuwait and Basha wall, while I only killed the outer units that should be supposed to wall. What he did: Break my inside wall in South Iraq.

Click 1
Click 2

Before you call him noob, he is a very experienced player in the map. I had lost 4 consecutive times to him. So, I asked him why he do this. His reply was way, very mature:

" I didnt know what you was going to do".

Clovis you need to learn english
Goblin, you are just wrong, plz stop posting.

Napisano przez Tundy, 15.10.2014 at 22:16

Clovis you need to learn english
Goblin, you are just wrong, plz stop posting.

You could join clovis in english lessons.

I asked a simple question on what is a zoom bug and how is it done and could it break my double wall in my picture.

Clovis ...i dont see no explanation on how its done in your post beside stating that it is.
Does ss i dont know what are they suppose to represent.

And i dont know the zoom bug.

...Even less i know who you are hazardouz so if you dont have an argumment or an explanation to back up why im wrong and on what matter ...gtfo.